[LMMS-devel] Just a suggestion about how to handle bug reports

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I'm not banned for some mailing list and some of the recipients are very
kind, but their lists are joined by people who maybe should pay
attention to this.
If you want people to report bugs, than
- don't laugh about them and say that they are the only one with that

Sometimes bugs *are* related to user error. Years ago I worked at an
Internet help desk. 9 times out of 10, the problem was the end user not
knowing how to use their computer or network applications. Sometimes
this means that the interface needs to be improved, and sometimes it
just means that the user needs to be educated.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
problem and they should search the web before they do stupid bug
reports. Be careful, sometimes the user might have more knowledge and
you only think you're right.

This cuts both ways. A little humility on both sides is probably a good
thing. For bug reporters, an aggressive and borderline abusive manner
is probably not the best approach, yet I see it time and time again. It
is as though some people expect that by insulting the developers, their
problems will get fixed faster. I am not accusing you of this, I am
just trying to help you understand what some of these developers face.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
- you say they are right, but the bug isn't caused by your software,
package-build, wiki, they should search the web and find out them self

How much time do volunteer developers have? They can only fix what is
in front of them. If their hardware and software performs as expected,
then it is unreasonable to expect them to spend hours on google looking
for problems. The real strength of Open Source is that the users can
participate in the development process *IF THEY SO CHOOSE*. This is
important. By helping each other we all benefit. This means we all
need to do some work. There are other options for those who do not want
to participate or do any work.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
where they have to report bugs. Users might be stupid, but they won't
report a bug for their office suit to ALSA and reporting a bug that has
to do with an audio application, might be reported to ALSA, JACK, the
kernel community, because they all have to do with such a bug

This is complicated, getting bugs between wildly unrelated projects
sorted out. The process is not perfect, but it generally works.

It is one thing to complain, quite another to get working on a solution.
I have often been frustrated that the work the kernel developers do
sometimes breaks my audio applications. I have been unable to figure
out a better way of doing things, so I accept that for now, this is
simply the way things are. Someone smarter than I may come up with a
solution, or they may not. Either way I do no good in simply whining
about it.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
- allow people to report without getting subscribed

In a perfect world perhaps. Unfortunately SPAM, griefers (aka trolls),
and drive by virus download links mean that this is not going to
happen. At the very least, SPAM will need to be solved before
subscriptions are not mandatory.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I'm suggesting this because I misbehaved, when I asked because of a bug.
Now I'm banned for a forum and a mailing list, but they grant me, that I
have pointed out something that was unknown.
But I wasn't the one who pointed out this bug, the web was full of posts
from other people, before I even noticed this bug. When they try to
report something and been laughed at etc., they don't go on like I did,
they won't be idiots like I'm. They won't be banned.

I am not sure where or why you were banned, that is between you and that
community.

I have found it interesting that some people will put their bug reports
into their blogs and not report them to the developers. The developers
have better things to do than to try and pull vague bug reports out of
google. Again, we seem to circle back to the idea of personal
responsibility. If it is not worth reporting via the mechanism the
developers suggest, then do not expect the bug to be fixed.

In the "real" world, if you do not vote or otherwise participate in the
political system, you really have no grounds to complain about how that
system affects you.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
A lot of people change over to windows, a lot of people report bugs and

People have choice. There is a choice to participate or to merely
consume. There are some software ecologies that cater to both of these.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
nobody cares about, a lot of people won't spend hours in reporting
something, by reading rules how to do this, e.g. I was exhorted to write
the German word "das" correctly, because there are rules, that this word
sometimes must be written "dass" instead of "das".
I often reported bugs to people who than said, they are making music too
and that bug didn't exist, a year later it's noticed in a developer list
and they have long threads about it and they wonder why nobody reported
this before.

One report can easily be missed. It also needs to be repeatable and
testable. I am just as surprised at the sheer number of bugs that the
open source community deals with in a year.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
People don't try to asked, because they have fear to asked in a wrong
kind, the wrong questions. If you report a bug you often hear use this
distro instead of this distro, if you don't like it, or use Windows
instead of Linux, if you don't like it. But you do like a special
distro, application etc. ...
Things went terrible wrong in the community and it's not a borderline
and dyslexic personality like me ... "normal" people have fear to use
Linux, to ask the community.

I have never met a "normal" person. Everyone I meet is unique in his or
her own way. Where are these mythical normal people?

Post by Ralf Mardorf
If anybody is interested in what I noticed about Linux audio and MIDI,
which bugs I have myself etc., I will go on, because I will stay at
Linux for nearly everything, but I guess I have to find something else
for multimedia. Hints for alternatives to Linux are welcome.

I am interested but I can do very little about it since I am not a
coder. The best place for that would be the communities that
maintain/develop the software that is causing you problems.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Don't worry, I won't write anything again if I'm unwanted.
Good luck for multimedia Linux!

Ralf Mardorf

2008-12-17 00:26:42 UTC

Hi Gustin :)

it's easy to get named a troll. What should a user do, that has troubles
with JACK?

I like the 64 Studio community, unfortunately the version for the 64
Studio 2.1 stable version is 0.103.

It's silly if a user reports a bug about that version, while the JACK
developers needs statements about 0.116.

There are distros like Suse, that supports 0.116 by community packages,
e.g. for Suse it's the Packman repository.

I had contact to the packager by the Linux Club.

People reported that bug e.g. to the Ardour forums, a long time before I
had this bug. There they say, it's a JACK bug, but this isn't true, it
was a packman bug. http://ardour.org/node/2271

I don't want to talk again about this, because I'm personal involved in
this, maybe someone of those who replied off-list can give other
examples, I won't quote private mails.

Testing of RCs often is unwanted. I tried to make a howto and needed
help and that was unwanted. And people don't report bugs to the right
places, 1. because they don't know the right places and 2. because they
know, that they will get bashed.

When I reported the JACK package bug for Packman I get sarcasms. I was
a troll, who made everything wrong, because I have no knowledge. Nobody
but me should have this bug too, written by the packer, who asserted
that he makes music with the packages from Packman. This must be a lie,
because this package is broken for everyone.

1. If you like to help and write a howto, but you need some help because
you e.g. don't know that compilers differ for several Linux, you need to
add headers for some applications, than you do something that is unwanted.
2. If you report that something don't work, you need help, than you are
a troll, because it's not true.

I'm not the only one. Why can you find bugs in the web, that are not
reported to the right people?

I got mails off-list, with statements similar to "I recently got raked
over the coals by ...".

Which distribution can I use, that is wanted by the developers? How do I
have to report bugs? When I say "Hello, there's a bug" I don't want the
answer, that I'm a noob, nobody has this bug, while the whole community
has got the same bug.

I'm not the "Girl, interrupted" when I reported a bug and I'm not a
individual case. I get crazed, when people are unconvincable, they don't
need to excuse, while people like me get banned.

The only thing users can do, is to report bugs anonymous, in forums
somewhere in the web, instead of talking to the right people.

Misspelling for a user who reports something should be allowed.
Posting a bug that was posted before, should be allowed.
Posting a bug of a front or back end to the back or front end people
should be allowed.
To be stupid should be allowed.

But it isn't.

Cheers,
Ralf

PS: I have a bad conscience because I wrote this troll like stuff. I
also get off-list mails that this will break the work. But I guess it's
a topic, if Linux is also for Users. I never developed anything for
Linux, but I was a developer too. I don't understand the problem with
bug reports. At the moment it looks like I'm not banned in much mailing
lists, as it was written.

Gustin Johnson

2008-12-17 02:43:36 UTC

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Hi Gustin :)
it's easy to get named a troll. What should a user do, that has
troubles with JACK?

It depends, this is where research comes in handy.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I like the 64 Studio community, unfortunately the version for the 64
Studio 2.1 stable version is 0.103.
It's silly if a user reports a bug about that version, while the JACK
developers needs statements about 0.116.

So, if you look in to this, the Debian way is to contact package
maintainer, who then contacts upstream as necessary.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
There are distros like Suse, that supports 0.116 by community
packages, e.g. for Suse it's the Packman repository.
I had contact to the packager by the Linux Club.
People reported that bug e.g. to the Ardour forums, a long time
before I had this bug. There they say, it's a JACK bug, but this
isn't true, it was a packman bug. http://ardour.org/node/2271

You did ask the question in the wrong place. The person who gave the
correct answer actually did not do you any favours.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I don't want to talk again about this, because I'm personal involved
in this, maybe someone of those who replied off-list can give other
examples, I won't quote private mails.

Doesn't matter to me. I see nothing wrong with that thread.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Testing of RCs often is unwanted. I tried to make a howto and needed
help and that was unwanted. And people don't report bugs to the right
places, 1. because they don't know the right places and 2. because
they know, that they will get bashed.

If I don't do my homework, then I expect to find a less than comforting
response. I do not get coddled anywhere else in life, I do not see why
this should be any different.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
When I reported the JACK package bug for Packman I get sarcasms. I
was a troll, who made everything wrong, because I have no knowledge.
Nobody but me should have this bug too, written by the packer, who
asserted that he makes music with the packages from Packman. This
must be a lie, because this package is broken for everyone.

I know I have suspected you to be a troll, in fact I am still not
entirely convinced that you are not. It may be a language issue, but
you do seem to find a very inflammatory way of communicating in English.
Subject lines like "Linux has no future for multimedia" are going to
get a hostile response. I am pretty sure you are smart enough to know
that.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
1. If you like to help and write a howto, but you need some help
because you e.g. don't know that compilers differ for several Linux,
you need to add headers for some applications, than you do something
that is unwanted. 2. If you report that something don't work, you
need help, than you are a troll, because it's not true.
I'm not the only one. Why can you find bugs in the web, that are not
reported to the right people?

It is easier to post your problems to a blog rather to figure out who
you need to talk to. I am guilty of this as well.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I got mails off-list, with statements similar to "I recently got
raked over the coals by ...".

I can tell you it has happened to me on more than one occasion. It is
even worse when it happens in real life by someone like Aaron Seigo in
front of your friends. I may have considered the responses to be harsh,
but in every single case I learned something and came away better for
it. There is an old saying "if you can't handle the heat, stay out of
the kitchen".

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Which distribution can I use, that is wanted by the developers? How do I

Ask them. Most of the ones I have dealt with don't care.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
have to report bugs? When I say "Hello, there's a bug" I don't want
the answer, that I'm a noob, nobody has this bug, while the whole
community has got the same bug.
I'm not the "Girl, interrupted" when I reported a bug and I'm not a
individual case. I get crazed, when people are unconvincable, they
don't need to excuse, while people like me get banned.

If you have been banned more than once, then I would look at your
procedure. Just once can be an accident, more than that indicates a
problem with your communication methodologies.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
The only thing users can do, is to report bugs anonymous, in forums
somewhere in the web, instead of talking to the right people.

That helps no one. No, what users should do is participate. The
information is there, the tools are there, there is really no excuse
other than "I didn't want to put forth the effort so I didn't". This is
valid, but one should not expect a response.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Misspelling for a user who reports something should be allowed.

Depends on the community running that particular forum. I am not going
to dictate terms to people who do work for me for 0$.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Posting a bug that was posted before, should be allowed.

I disagree with this. If a bug has been posted before, and you try to
post it again, it usually means you did not do your homework.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Posting a bug of a front or back end to the back or front end people
should be allowed.

Depends on the community running that particular forum. I tend to obey
the rules of whatever community I am a guest in, virtual or physical.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
To be stupid should be allowed.
But it isn't.

You really should read this link or find a quality German translation.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Actually anyone who has emailed you off list should read this link too.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
PS: I have a bad conscience because I wrote this troll like stuff. I

So, you know that you write troll like stuff, and are still surprised by
the hostile response?

Post by Ralf Mardorf
also get off-list mails that this will break the work. But I guess
it's a topic, if Linux is also for Users. I never developed anything
for Linux, but I was a developer too. I don't understand the problem
with

I am not sure what to say here. Hundreds of thousands of volunteer
developers, thousands of different projects all makes for a complicated
situation. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
bug reports. At the moment it looks like I'm not banned in much
mailing lists, as it was written.

Ralf Mardorf

2008-12-17 03:59:08 UTC

Post by Gustin Johnson
So, if you look in to this, the Debian way is to contact package
maintainer, who then contacts upstream as necessary.

Hm, why comes the testing with
http://apt.64studio.com/64studio/testing/pool/main/j/jack-audio-connection-kit/jackd_0.103.0-6?

And ...

* etch (stable) <http://packages.debian.org/etch/jackd> (sound):
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.101.1-2: alpha amd64 arm hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390
sparc
* etch-m68k <http://packages.debian.org/etch-m68k/jackd> (sound):
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.101.1-2: m68k
* lenny (testing) <http://packages.debian.org/lenny/jackd> (sound):
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.109.2-3: alpha amd64 arm armel hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel
powerpc s390 sparc
* sid (unstable) <http://packages.debian.org/sid/jackd> (sound):
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.116.1-1: alpha amd64 arm armel i386 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386
m68k mips powerpc s390 sparc
0.115.6-1: hppa ia64 mipsel
0.109.2-4: hurd-i386

After my troubles yesterday with the Packman package-builder, because
his package was broken, I won't ask a Debian package-builder. For Suse
and Debian there seems to a problem, because JACK is split.

0.103 was a smart solution in the past, 0.109 might be no god solution
for any time, but now the JACK developers which to see 0.116 for the
distros.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
People reported that bug e.g. to the Ardour forums, a long time
before I had this bug. There they say, it's a JACK bug, but this
isn't true, it was a packman bug. http://ardour.org/node/2271

You did ask the question in the wrong place. The person who gave the
correct answer actually did not do you any favours.

No, I didn't ask at the Ardour forum, I asked at the LAD list. I
couldn't ask the package-builder at Linux Club, were I met him, because
he's a w....r. That's why I asked the LAD list. This package-builder is
also at this list and he said I'm stupid, it's my fault, his package is
good, nobody but me has this problem. The people from the Ardour forum
are such "nobodies" like me. People checked it at the LAD list and
everybody is "nobody", the package was invalid.

This package-builder told me that all I do is wrong, even after it's
100% clear, that he did a bad job. He lied that makes music with Suse
and his own packages. Why didn't he notice, that his package is broken?
It's impossible that he can make music with his Suse, while he is using
the packagees he build, because JACK was broken.

I'm banned someone said, I didn't checked it, but I guess it's at Linux
Club, where those people are moderators, I still can write to the LAD list.

Yes, I build over and misbehaved, BUT for good reasons. NOBODY but me
reported that bug, to a forum were it is noticed by the right people,
but they post it e.g. at the Ardour forum.

It's not very clever what I did. I'm the evil now.

There are a lot of people that say, that audio and MIDI is fine for
them, even if they never have tested it.

Post by Gustin Johnson
you do seem to find a very inflammatory way of communicating in English.

Because I boiled over. The people at the Ardour forum didn't boil over,
but nobody noticed them, so the package was still broken when I
installed it days later. If I didn't boiled over, the package would be
still broken.

Post by Gustin Johnson
It is easier to post your problems to a blog rather to figure out who
you need to talk to. I am guilty of this as well.

It wasn't allowed for other problems before, because I don't have the
knowledge to handle Linux ;). I gave the complete verbose terminal
outputs and it was posted i'm only talking about hwo bad Suse is and
there will be no information about the problems, in the same post I got
an answer to the verbose informations I posted.

You can take a look a forums, it's often that way, it's not only me who
has such problems.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I got mails off-list, with statements similar to "I recently got
raked over the coals by ...".

And if all people stay out of the kitchen, nobody will cook. In the
Ardour forum there was no flame war, but the package wasn't repaired. I
went into the kitchen and now the package should be repaired, resp. it
became two packages, but I burned my fingers.

If all people will stay out of the kitchen, Linux becomes a system from
developers, for developers and there will be no users any more.

Post by Gustin Johnson
You really should read this link or find a quality German translation.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

"What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be
unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions.
People like that are time sinks â they take without giving back, and
they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting
and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this
âlosersâ (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it âlusersâ)."

Some people think they are hackers, but they are still losers. You can
often read that a newbie has no screen or only boot into text mode.
Those Pseudo-Hackers come with the most absurd hints. If a moderator
wish to help he should do so, if he don't like to help, he shouldn't
help, that's okay, but often they don't like to help, they only make
clear, that Linux is for some very special people.

Has anybody ever thought about, why some mistakes are made by nearly
every newbie?

Post by Ralf Mardorf
PS: I have a bad conscience because I wrote this troll like stuff. I

So, you know that you write troll like stuff, and are still surprised by
the hostile response?

Yes, but I don't like this measurement. And it's not different to that,
what the moderators do, I met, resp, it differs, I never lied.

Gustin Johnson

2008-12-17 04:59:46 UTC

Post by Gustin Johnson
So, if you look in to this, the Debian way is to contact package
maintainer, who then contacts upstream as necessary.

Hm, why comes the testing with
http://apt.64studio.com/64studio/testing/pool/main/j/jack-audio-connection-kit/jackd_0.103.0-6?
And ...
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.101.1-2: alpha amd64 arm hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390
sparc
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.101.1-2: m68k
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.109.2-3: alpha amd64 arm armel hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel
powerpc s390 sparc
JACK Audio-Verbindungs-Kit (Server und Beispielclients)
0.116.1-1: alpha amd64 arm armel i386 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386
m68k mips powerpc s390 sparc
0.115.6-1: hppa ia64 mipsel
0.109.2-4: hurd-i386

I am not sure what you are asking.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
After my troubles yesterday with the Packman package-builder, because
his package was broken, I won't ask a Debian package-builder. For Suse
and Debian there seems to a problem, because JACK is split.

There are design difference between SuSe and Debian.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
0.103 was a smart solution in the past, 0.109 might be no god solution
for any time, but now the JACK developers which to see 0.116 for the
distros.

You did ask the question in the wrong place. The person who gave the
correct answer actually did not do you any favours.

Very confusing. It sounds like you were installing a 3rd party package,
which is who you should go to for support.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
This package-builder told me that all I do is wrong, even after it's
100% clear, that he did a bad job. He lied that makes music with Suse
and his own packages. Why didn't he notice, that his package is broken?
It's impossible that he can make music with his Suse, while he is using
the packagees he build, because JACK was broken.

No idea, I do not use SuSe.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I'm banned someone said, I didn't checked it, but I guess it's at Linux
Club, where those people are moderators, I still can write to the LAD list.
Yes, I build over and misbehaved, BUT for good reasons. NOBODY but me

You pay the price for misbehaving. Regardless of the justification.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
reported that bug, to a forum were it is noticed by the right people,
but they post it e.g. at the Ardour forum.
It's not very clever what I did. I'm the evil now.
There are a lot of people that say, that audio and MIDI is fine for
them, even if they never have tested it.

For how I use it, MIDI has been fine for years. I have yet to have the
time to construct your test case.

Post by Gustin Johnson
you do seem to find a very inflammatory way of communicating in English.

Likely there is a limit to how successful this will be in the long run.
Of course you are free to conduct yourself however you see fit.

Post by Gustin Johnson
It is easier to post your problems to a blog rather to figure out who
you need to talk to. I am guilty of this as well.

It wasn't allowed for other problems before, because I don't have the
knowledge to handle Linux ;).

Fortunately the tools and data are there to help us learn.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I gave the complete verbose terminal
outputs and it was posted i'm only talking about hwo bad Suse is and

verbose outputs generate a lot of noise in which the actual problem can
be hidden. It would be better if you could that initial work. If you
do not want to, then you will receive limited assistance.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
there will be no information about the problems, in the same post I got
an answer to the verbose informations I posted.
You can take a look a forums, it's often that way, it's not only me who
has such problems.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
I got mails off-list, with statements similar to "I recently got
raked over the coals by ...".

And if all people stay out of the kitchen, nobody will cook. In the

Except that it is not the people who are complaining who are doing the
cooking. Most of the people who are complaining are not contributing,
so there is no real loss IMO.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Ardour forum there was no flame war, but the package wasn't repaired. I
went into the kitchen and now the package should be repaired, resp. it
became two packages, but I burned my fingers.
If all people will stay out of the kitchen, Linux becomes a system from
developers, for developers and there will be no users any more.

That is exactly how it all started, and exactly why it is all so useful.
The developers are not constrained by sales targets, they make what
they want when they can.

Post by Gustin Johnson
You really should read this link or find a quality German translation.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

"What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be
unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions.
People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and
they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting
and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this
“losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it “lusers”)."
Some people think they are hackers, but they are still losers. You can
often read that a newbie has no screen or only boot into text mode.
Those Pseudo-Hackers come with the most absurd hints. If a moderator
wish to help he should do so, if he don't like to help, he shouldn't
help, that's okay, but often they don't like to help, they only make
clear, that Linux is for some very special people.

Exactly! These special people are described in the paragraphs that
immediately follow the one you quoted:

"We realize that there are many people who just want to use the software
we write, and who have no interest in learning technical details. For
most people, a computer is merely a tool, a means to an end; they have
more important things to do and lives to live. We acknowledge that, and
don't expect everyone to take an interest in the technical matters that
fascinate us. Nevertheless, our style of answering questions is tuned
for people who do take such an interest and are willing to be active
participants in problem-solving. That's not going to change. Nor should
it; if it did, we would become less effective at the things we do best.

We're (largely) volunteers. We take time out of busy lives to answer
questions, and at times we're overwhelmed with them. So we filter
ruthlessly. In particular, we throw away questions from people who
appear to be losers in order to spend our question-answering time more
efficiently, on winners.

If you find this attitude obnoxious, condescending, or arrogant, check
your assumptions. We're not asking you to genuflect to us — in fact,
most of us would love nothing more than to deal with you as an equal and
welcome you into our culture, if you put in the effort required to make
that possible. But it's simply not efficient for us to try to help
people who are not willing to help themselves. It's OK to be ignorant;
it's not OK to play stupid.

So, while it isn't necessary to already be technically competent to get
attention from us, it is necessary to demonstrate the kind of attitude
that leads to competence — alert, thoughtful, observant, willing to be
an active partner in developing a solution. If you can't live with this
sort of discrimination, we suggest you pay somebody for a commercial
support contract instead of asking hackers to personally donate help to you.

If you decide to come to us for help, you don't want to be one of the
losers. You don't want to seem like one, either. The best way to get a
rapid and responsive answer is to ask it like a person with smarts,
confidence, and clues who just happens to need help on one particular
problem."

This really says it all.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Has anybody ever thought about, why some mistakes are made by nearly
every newbie?

Yes, that is why nearly every project has an FAQ. It is also why Eric
Steven Raymond put together that rather long piece I keep pointing you to.

Post by Ralf Mardorf
PS: I have a bad conscience because I wrote this troll like stuff. I

So, you know that you write troll like stuff, and are still surprised by
the hostile response?

Yes, but I don't like this measurement. And it's not different to that,
what the moderators do, I met, resp, it differs, I never lied.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. If you act like a jerk, expect
hostility in return. Yes this Open source world can be frustrating, but
that is no excuse to act like a jerk. Period.

Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ

2008-12-17 00:09:42 UTC

That's because you made it clear you'd already pretty badly broken your
system, and wouldn't actually do any of the things other posters had
told you to do to fix it ;-)

Don't take it personally. A lot of people in here get annoyed at the
"Wah, it's broken, why is no-one helping me!" attitude that a lot of
people bring. It's worth acquainting yourself with ESR's "How To Ask
Questions The Smart Way".

Post by Ralf Mardorf
Things went terrible wrong in the community and it's not a borderline
and dyslexic personality like me ... "normal" people have fear to use

Claiming to be dyslexic doesn't really help. I'm very severely
dyslexic. I just take the time to make sure what I've written makes
sense. People who bash out badly-written nonsense with terrible grammar
and worse spelling aren't doing it because they're dyslexic (although
they may be), they're doing it because they're lazy.

Gordon

Ralf Mardorf

2008-12-17 01:07:03 UTC